Howard Drossin interview by SageXPO (August 2008)
From Sonic Retro
This is a interview conducted in the irc chat room of Sagexpo.org, with Howard Drossin, a music composer who worked on Sonic Spinball Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles, and other Sonic games. The interview has been edited for readibility and irrelavent bits have been edited out.
The Interview
Shadix: Sorry about the technical difficulties.
HowardDrossin: Ok.
Prime_2: So Howard, you were involved in the Sonic 3 music...
HowardDrossin: Yes.
Prime_2: Now, the Sonic 3 final boss music was pretty much the best boss arrangement I have ever heard, ever. Did you have any involvement?
HowardDrossin: It was a long time ago. I don't remember all of the tracks. I'd like to say yes, but i could be wrong.
Kiddo: How was the music for Sonic 3 composed? I'm assuming it was not like the "Sonic Megamix" project's music hacking, of course. In particular Sonic 3 had some neat effects not normally done in Genesis games like most of the "Pops" and the "Heys"! Only other Genesis game I recall did that on a regular basis was, uh TMNT: Hyperstone Heist.
HowardDrossin: The music was composed separately and input for the genesis by someone named Setsu (I think). didn't do any sound efx for Sonic 3.
Kiddo: Setsu? Sounds like an alias....
HowardDrossin: Actually it was a Japanese name, shortened from a longer name.
Kiddo: Well, I mean. Some of the music has sound effects -in- the music. Like if you go to Launch Base you hear the Clap-like "GAO!" or something.
HowardDrossin: That was done separately while it was being programmed for the genesis.
SonicTweaker: Okay, I want to clarify the name Mr. Drossin is thinking of... Masaru Setsumaru
HowardDrossin: That's it!!!
Aquaslash: Im gonna ask the question a lot of folks want to know. To what extent was Michael Jackson involved in Sonic 3 and how much of his work did you replace?
HowardDrossin: Originally he was involved but in the end he ended up with NO involvement.
SonicTweaker: Can I ask something about that?
HowardDrossin: Sure, if I can tell you.
SonicTweaker: Despite Michael Jackson having no involvement in the end, there have been certain similarities pointed out between MJ's music and some of the PCM samples used for percussion in the game. Namely, a sample used in Carnival Night Zone uses an excerpt of the MJ song "Jam". You can literally hear the lyric being spoken, upon closer inspection. Is there anything you know regarding this? In addition, is it somehow related to certain musical tracks being changed in the PC version of the game?
HowardDrossin: I did not do all of the music for the game. However, I know that SEGA wanted to distance themselves from him after the sex scandal. If MJ's tracks influenced some of the music it is a coincidence as far as I know.
Aquaslash: There's a song you did for the "Virtual Sonic" album called "Metal Sonic". Did you have the lyrics to that anywhere, it's kinda hard to understand?
HowardDrossin: I don't have the lyrics anymore, but I know the first line is -- He's going his own way. My lyrics were a bit subversive for the project and intentionally hard to understand when I sang it.
Aquaslash: I got that vibe as well. I guess the mystery remains lol.
HowardDrossin: I could probably remember if I heard them again. Its been awhile.
Turbohog: First of all thanks for coming, it's a real pleasure. And since the biggest question was already asked, I'll ask a pretty basic question. If given the chance to work on another Sonic game, would you?
HowardDrossin: Yes, absolutely. In fact, I may.
Turbohog: Fantastic! It would be great to hear some of your work on a future Sonic game.
HowardDrossin: Thanks. I won't work with Michael Jackson though!!
TriAttackHax: I wouldn't work with Michael either, Mr. Drossin. :) Thank you for your time, Mr. Drossin. My question is this: you worked on the music for both Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Sonic and Knuckles, but originally the two games were one larger project. When you were working on Sonic 3, were you in fact working on the sequel's music as well? Or was the project already "split" by the time you began on it?
HowardDrossin: They were separate projects for me. I worked on them at different times. Yes it was already split.
TriAttackHax: Alrighty, that answers it for me. I've always been curious about that, actually. Thanks, Mr. Drossin. :) Good luck on future endeavors. :)
HowardDrossin: Thank you :)
GeneXM: Thank you for coming to SAGE, Mr. Drossin.
HowardDrossin: Sure.
GeneXM: I have two questions: First, when you were working on music for the stages, how difficult was it to create music in Sonic 3 that fit the level's theme while maintaining the general hip-hop sound?
HowardDrossin: I didn't deal with the programming of the sound. I composed separately.
GeneXM: And second, have you worked on other projects post-Sonic?
HowardDrossin: many.
Jeiku: Mr. Drossin, thanks for coming by and I really enjoy your work for the series.
HowardDrossin: thanks.
Jeiku: Anyhow, are you still open to composing music for video games in the future, or are you solely focusing on working on film soundtracks at the moment?
HowardDrossin: Actually, I'm currently working on 2 games right now.
Jeiku: Are you in the position to disclose what they are?
HowardDrossin: Yes. Splatterhouse and Afro Samurai for Namco.
Jeiku: Wow, Afro Samurai - that'll be something to look forward to. Thanks for answering :D
HowardDrossin: Thanks. They have both been really cool to work on.
H_Hug: Hi there, uhm... sorry for not asking something more interesting, but yeah... it's been burning in my mind for the last ... close to 10 years. I, as well as two of my friends all own a copy of Comix Zone for the Genesis, which came with a CD of vocal versions of many of the game's tunes. I must say I love the music you did for it! However, I'd like to parrot Aquaslash's question about the lyrics. I didn't understand much of them, and what I did seemed quite random. Are the original lyrics still available anywhere? And am I to understand that these are intentionally made hard to understand as well? :)
HowardDrossin: Uh...No...They just weren't very good lyrics. I had to write them really fast. I may have done some slurring.
H_Hug: Ah... that... probably explains a lot, I suppose. =)
HowardDrossin: Sadly yes. I may try to dig them up. I've been asked a couple of times.
Night: Okay, what kind of limitations are there when composing for a cartridge system like that? I've heard that there's only like, [9] seperate layers available on the genesis or something to that effect.
HowardDrossin: That is correct, plus one sample channel to share with sound efx. It is very difficult -- i used a front end program called GEMS.
SonicTweaker: HowardDrossin' Speaking of GEMS, your music is the only music that actually sounded GOOD with that engine. Was there something specific you did to make it sound better than most others?
HowardDrossin: I worked hard at creating and sequencing my own instruments.
Metal_Man88: Hello; nice to talk to you. I'm just wondering, Howard, what led to you working for Sega, and what was your favorite song you composed while you were doing songs for them?
HowardDrossin: I'm most proud of COMIX ZONE with reference to that. What led me to Sega: I was hired by Roger Hector. My favorite song-- that's tough, probably something off Comix Zone.
GeoffreyTaucer: Hey, Howard. Again, thanks for agreeing to this interview. My question has several parts. First, did you write the Lava Reef zone theme for Sonic 3. Second, do you ever listen to remixes? Specifically, have you ever heard "Lover Reef," and if so, what did you think? And third (not so much a question as a humble request): I heard you will be attending MAGfest. Four of the five remixers behind "Lover Reef" will likely be attending. We would be deeply honored if you could find the time to stop by jamspace and allow us to pay tribute to your music in person with a live performance.
HowardDrossin: I didn't name the tracks. I'm not sure if I wrote Lava Reef. I'd need to listen to it. I just handed music to the Sonic Team and they named it. I haven't heard any of he remixes. I know I need to do that. I didn't realize they were there until very recently.
SonicTweaker: Do you need some sort of reference to remind you of tracks you composed? If so, I have a full mp3 listing of all the songs from the game. But for Lava Reef specifically, there's this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo_4R17gYSY
HowardDrossin: I just need to hear them. Its been a very, very long time and I write a lot of music. I'm sorry.
Shadix: Hmm, so when you write your songs you do you not have a theme in mind?
HowardDrossin: I'll check. Yes. from Sonic Spinball
GeoffreyTaucer: do you typically play the games you compose for? Or just hand over the soundtrack? I guess what I'm asking is how much info do they give you before you have to start writing?
HowardDrossin: I never used to play the games. I was just writing music. Now, I play them a bit. Depends on the game. Some teams give a lot of information, some teams not so much.
GeoffreyTaucer: somebody else can have a turn. Thanks again, Howard.
HowardDrossin: Sure thanks.
Kroze: 1. How would YOU pronounce the word "queue"? 2. This now kinda is a problem since you said you didn't name the songs you did but Ice Cap Zone (for refrence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYxlqTpZ-24 ), one of the most remixed tunes from Sonic 3 [Howard didn't actually compose this song]... and people come up with some really horrible stuff like this: http://icecap.ocremix.org/ do you regret it now?
HowardDrossin: Maybe cause I'm on a mac. I can't go to the links anyway. Won't let me copy it.
SonicTweaker: I do have an interesting question, one which isn't completely random and without direction. e to the rather random methods in which you were told to compose music for the game, were there any songs you composed that never made the cut (in other words, music that never made it into the game)? This is referring to both Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles.
HowardDrossin: Yes, a lot of my music never made it into the game. Likewise some of the tracks aren't mine
SonicTweaker: Do you have any copies of this music laying around at all?
HowardDrossin: Probably in midi format.
SonicTweaker: Do you think you could look for them? We'd love to hear them :)
HowardDrossin: Maybe at some point. Right now I'm slammed though.
Shadix: Like drunk? :o
HowardDrossin: haha I wish
Donnyku: I would like to start out saying, I loved your remix "Return to Toxic Caves" on The Virtual Sonic album. w, unrelated to that, Did you work on the Sonic 3 or & Knuckles Credits? Because, recently, a proto of the combined Sonic 3 & Knuckles was found, and in it, it had a new mix for the credits that had the Sonic 3 Level music into the melody. Any reason why it wasn't kept? http://donnyku.nothingforfree.com/Sonic%203K%20Alt%20Credits.mp3 is the one I speak of.
HowardDrossin: Thanks. Now that track I remember. The first I wrote at SEGA. I can't go to the link you're pointing me to. Sorry. I don't think I had anything to do with this track.
Shadix: Oh, so you wrote the SONIC 3 credits or the fanfare ending? I wish I could link you to it because this would be something big.
HowardDrossin: I wrote a lot music for Sonic 3 but I don't know how much of it got in. I have never played the game (sorry). Afterward I was working on another game and didn't look back.
Shadix: How bout I email you the links real quick and we'll move on.
HowardDrossin: OK email them to me.
zircon: Hey Howard, I'm one of the site staff over at ocremix.org, which is a community of mostly hobbyist musicians that do free arrangements and remixes of video game music. I thought you might like to know (first) that Sonic 3 is easily among the most popular games in terms of number of remixes. I know you said you haven't heard any of the Sonic 3 remixes yet (or not ours, at least), but I was curious as to what your stance is on fans remixing music of yours and your colleagues.
HowardDrossin: There were a lot of composers on Sonic 3. I was one. I don't want to take credit for anyone else's music. You should know that. I think remixing is great and I'm flattered by it.
SonicTweaker: HowardDrossin You mentioned you'd be able to share that unused music at one point--when you do, would you be able to email it to Shadix or something similar?
HowardDrossin: This could be a while. I didn't ever think anyone would be interested and am not quite sure where it is anymore...
SonicTweaker: On the contrary--interest is quite high! You'd be surprised :) Butt sure, take your time.
HowardDrossin: I am!!! Wow.
zircon: Yeah, just to interject briefly, I'd estimate that remixes from Sonic 3 have probably been downloaded hundreds of thousands of times from OCremix.org alone. Only gets more and more popular :)
HowardDrossin: That's cool.
Shadix: (btw Howard I sent that email).
HowardDrossin: Sure.
ScarredSun: After your work on Comix Zone in 1995, it seems you had less involvement with Sega than you had been from 1993-1995; there was Dynamite Cop in 1997 and Alien Front Online in 2001. What did you do in these years between 95 and 01? Did Sega ask for your help in other projects? Were you working for other companies?
HowardDrossin: Also worked for Activision (Vigilante 8) and Interplay (Baldur's Gate) Did a theme park Universal Islands of Adventure. I left Sega in 96
ScarredSun: Ah. Wasn't exactly clear when that was. Thanks!
HowardDrossin: FYi. Sonic 3 credits I did NOT write the music for.
jman2050: Thank you for your time Howard. I am wondering one thing... in Sonic and Knuckles (and Sonic 3 for that matter), each level basically had two versions of the same song, one for each act. Did you compose two different versions of a song, or was it just a single song you composed and was remixed later?
HowardDrossin: I only composed single versions.
SonicTweaker: Do you know who was responsible for creating the remixes?
HowardDrossin: On the genesis?
SonicTweaker: Well, in any form, really; I don't know if they were specific to the console itself or if there were MIDIs made for the remixes as well. I know you're not responsible for the sound programming.
HowardDrossin: That would be Setsu doing the remix.
SonicTweaker: Aha! Thank you!
HowardDrossin: Setsu was the genius behind the Sonic sound.
MrMAGFest_cellphone: Hey Howard, good to see you here! The easy question is: who did the sega singing in the comix boot screen? hard question, is there any game composing horror story you want to share (other than the usual deadlines which i'm sure suck pretty hardcore as it stands)? or perhaps, a composing gig you really wanted but didn't get?
HowardDrossin: Easy question = I did
MrMAGFest_cellphone: hahaha, I had a feeling about that..
HowardDrossin: I had to write and program a new theme for SEGA Spinball in around 1 hour. I thought that was cool :-)
MrMAGFest_cellphone: as in, the titlescreen or main theme music?
HowardDrossin: The title Spinball screen.
jman2050: it was originally the Sonic 1 main theme. They found out at the last minute that DCT owned the song and Sega didn't want to pay royalties so they had to make a new one.
HowardDrossin: That's right Jman.
H_Hog: Heh. Well, for the time you got to make it, it's a pretty catchy title tune. =)
HowardDrossin: A bit. Thanks.
EV3: ok here's the question... The levels in Sonic3K and most other games generally fit to a certain theme or element. Were there any musical elements you incorporated that helped to associate it with the theme?
HowardDrossin: Again, I handed music off to the sonic team. they were using a front end i was not familiar with that was the extent of my work on that game (for Sonic 3). Most games do follow a specific theme. I generally accomplish this by doing several before the project and then creating variations or work off of them.
Shadix: I'd presume you did the entire Sonic & Knuckles Soundtrack. As in the credits you are the only one credited.
HowardDrossin: no -- i did not do the entire soundtrack. Some tracks were from Japanese composers. I'm not sure if all were credited.
Shadix: Sonic 3's lists a bunch of people who ironically also worked with Michael Jackson. So I don't get it.
HowardDrossin: Sega didn't do the best with credits - hence Drossin Howard on one game.
Chriss Senn Enters
':'At this point Chris Senn enters the irc under the name "sentinent":
Shadix: Since you are here Senn, I'll ask while you're here.
Chris Senn:: k cool... yeah shoot Shadix... (and what did I miss? Did Howard share some juicy goodness about his career and skills???)
Shadix: Supposedly you worked on a soundtrack to Sonic Xtreme. Did this ever come to fruitation and does any of it possibly recide anywhere? Correct me if I'm wrong Senn.
Chris Senn:: Me? All I did was a bunch of conceptual music... quick little pieces... none of them finished. Howard's the one who did actual finished pieces (a couple, I think, right Howard?)... my crap is at the Xtreme site.
Chris Senn:: You still have any of that Howard?
HowardDrossin: yes i did. have it somewhere... I actually may know where that is
Chris Senn:: cool. Would love to hear it - I remember an orchestral piece of the snow level (Crystal Frost maybe)...
Shadix: And maybe if your a nice guy you'll release it on Senn's Sonic X Compenduem if you can find it. :3 I would LOVE to hear some of them.
HowardDrossin: OK.
Chris Senn:: Or wherever you want
Chris Senn:: So have you shared any bits about where your career path has led since STI, Howard?
HowardDrossin: a little
Chris Senn:: Hmm... did you do any music scoring before STI?
HowardDrossin: Before: WOLF true life adventure for Disney (someone else got my credit though)After: Vigilante 8, Baldur's Gate: TOB, Shadows of AMN, a couple of movies, most recently The Protector (Tony Jaa).
Chris Senn:: Hey - didn't that happen at Sega too? I remember your name getting snuffed or put in a corner when you did the work for something... Tony "JAAAAAA" (a la Comix Zone Joe Pencil imitation you used to do LOL)
HowardDrossin: I've always had bad luck with credits. lol
Chris Senn:: People don't appreciate how important credit is... people can work so hard for something... and to be recognized with credit is sort of a basic thing. =/
HowardDrossin: yeah.
Donnyku: sorry to cut in, but did you have anything to do with Knucles Chaotix for the 32x?
HowardDrossin: I wrote a Knuckles theme
NeoHazard: I don't have a question, as usual. Count me outs. Hi though Howard.
HowardDrossin: hi
Shadix: If you composed the Sonic 3/Knuckles soundtrack in MIDI/GEMS, do you think it was used in Sonic and Knuckles Collection?
HowardDrossin: Haven't heard it
Dyne: Thank you for being here this evening, Mr. Drossin. My question has to do with what equipment/gear you use when you are working on any of your composing projects, do you have your own home-based studio, or do you use a regular recording studio, and what gear do you use/prefer?
HowardDrossin: Yes, I have my own studio. I sequence w/ Digital Performer. I use Kontakt, Giga, and many other things. Live guitars
Puto: Given that most of the music in Sonic Pocket Adventure are 8-bit versions of the Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles music, did you have anything to do with that game at all?
HowardDrossin: nothing to do w/ pocket adventure. that sounds sick
Chris Senn:: LOL You did the soundtrack for that, remember? Using the Korg Skin Flute? =P
HowardDrossin: haha
Puto: also, do you still have the original MIDI compositions of the songs you did for sonic 3 and sonic & knuckles?
HowardDrossin: I may only have some midi files. I'll give them to Senn to sort thru. :-)
MagicMan_EXE: Greetings, Howard, it's an honor to speak to you. I was wondering what the conditions were like when you were working for/with the SEGA Technical Institute?
HowardDrossin: Nice offices, nice people. steady pay
Puto: does that include the unused music?
HowardDrossin: to Puto - yeah, unused music