Template talk


From Sonic Retro

I don't think it's a good idea to have articles consisting solely of this template. Maybe we could turn it into a breakout box and use the notes as the article text. - Hivebrain 19:33, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I tried to drum up discourse on this matter on Category talk:Enemies some days ago, but no-one wanted to talk to me. ;_;
My rationale for possibly using a template of this nature was as follows (copypasta):

And Nao A Different Topic

Given all the activity that's going on in Enemy-land recently, there's another point it might be good to raise.

  • On the one hand, we have things like Crabmeat and Taraban; Buton and Ball Hog; Drillin and Burrobot; Pen and Penguinator - enemies which are obviously conceptually the same, but just have different names (oftentimes, it seems, just due to different translations / localisations) and are drawn slightly differently on different games.
  • On the other hand, there's Kiki and Mosqui, both series of enemies with just the one name but often significantly different mechanics between games, on pages where 90% of the page length is the templates to their various different portrayls. Newtron is another example; there were 2 different kinds in Sonic 1 itself (the ones that dropped down and rocketed at you, and the ones that just shot and vanished), AND then there was a version called Meleon in 8-bit S2.
  • And on a third hand grafted to the middle of your chest, there's halfway things like Artificial Chaos, different versions of which got given different names in SA2 (Artificial Chaos P-1 and Artificial Chaos P-100) but then the one in Shadow was just nameless vanilla.

I don't really know what procedure should be with these chaps to avoid everything becoming a horrible inconsistent mess. Options as I see them are:

  1. We could give every appearence of every enemy its own page (splitting Kiki up into Kiki (Sonic Adventure), Kiki (Sonic Advance), etx)
  2. Or fold all conceptually equivalent enemies into one page (say, for example, having a subsection in Penguinator saying "A very similar penguin badnik named Pen appeared in Sonic Advance, differing in that ...)
  3. Or we could be ruthless and do all the enemies like Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood Enemies (with pictures), in that they're tabulated - because realisticly, there's few if any run-of-the-mill in-game enemies that can't be entirely described by PIC/ NAME / GAME / ZONE (and maybe a 1-sentence DESCRIPTION if you're feeling loquacious).

Thoughts? I'm torn between options 1 and 3 personally. - Frozen Nitrogen 19:08, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I think the way we're (more or less) doing it now is fine. Enemies which look the same and have the same name are given one article for all their appearances. Enemy tables are okay for games with lots of one-appearance-only enemies. - Hivebrain 05:24, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
So by this do you suggest that we put all the enemies for Chaotix on a single page in the same style as Chronicles?
And again, I draw your attention to silly-lookin' pages like Kiki, with a billion screens of templates, as a demonstration that the present system is not fine. - Frozen Nitrogen 08:57, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

I think the current system is fine, though I don't see much point in this template in its current state. If anything, it should be converted into an infobox much like the ones included on the main character pages.

There is an issue with the unnamed badniks, but I don't think it's fair to combine them all into one page because some have quite a bit of history that can be documented, especially if someone was to go into the technical details surrounding them. Also you can't predict the future - what happens if someone comes across heaps of concept art or Sega decides to give some of these badniks a biography in Project Needlemouse or something? -Black Squirrel 18:34, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

So are you suggesting that the Chronicles table should be split up into 61 seperate enemy pages of 1 line each? Again, the current system doesn't work because we don't have a consistent idea about what do we do when we have things like the various Artificial Chaoses? And Meleon / Newtron? I'm all for having an enemy infobox, but for many enemies (particularly Chaotix's) there is no information that exists beyond that which would go in an infobox... which would lead to the pages looking exactly like Nishita's does now, except probably with a lot more stupid-looking empty space. - Frozen Nitrogen 20:07, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't minde enemy infoboxes being around but we need to keep seperate enemy pages, that includes Sonic Chronicles. Outright you may think an article would not be very large but if someone does come up with page filling info, I'll be glad to see it.--MUser 21:13, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

So am I to take it that consensus is:

  1. Every uniquely-named enemy gets a page (so we fission the Chronicles table) - irrespective of how much it's EXACTLY THE SAME as a previously enemy that differs only by said name
  2. All the enemies with the exact same name go on the same page (so we're stuck with Kiki as it is) - no dividing them up into Kiki (Sonic Advance), Kiki (Sonic Adventure 2)
  3. We can use an enemy infobox template that's like this Enemy1 one, but not... exactly like it?

- Frozen Nitrogen 23:01, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

That Nishta page would be twice as big without the template since there would be sentences and paragraphs. If done properly all badnik pages could be as big as this, if not bigger, and I think that's an acceptable size. Plus there's also heaps of Chaotix prototypes - the chances of every occurance of that badnik being the same is slim.

And yes, the Sonic Chronicles enemies should be split up, though you wouldn't get 61 pages out of it since a lot of them already exist. At the end of the day it's either that or three dozen redirect pages. In an RPG the enemies are arguably more important than the levels anyway, so it makes sense to give them more attention. -Black Squirrel 23:15, 28 January 2010 (UTC)