Talk:Sonic CulT

Early Days

"The Sonic-CulT was basically a gathering of information PACHUKA had found via Game Genie codes (around this time, he published an early Sonic 2 hack, Twiztid Sonic 2, which had basic palette/text/playlist changes) and some early pieces of the research scene—information on the Wai Sonic 2 Beta and magazine scans."

People seem to have the impression that when "Sonic Cult" first appeared in 1999, it contained a slew of Sonic research and game modding information not found elsewhere on the Internet. That is not true. Instead, it contained a cache of information copied from various parts of the web, even SSRG. Let's look at the evidence.

Below is an email message Pachuka sent me in Feb 1999, which I believe is when Sonic Cult first launched. In it he is requesting that I host Sonic Cult on Emulation Zone. What he highlights are the various media files he has in his possession, namely video and musical files. Surprisingly absent are any information about Sonic research and game modding. Given that SSRG had been up for nearly 2 years by the point with Sonic research and game modding exploding in popularity following the S2Beta ROM release, you would think he would focus on that in his email instead. The fact he didn't leads one to believe he didn't have anything note worthy.

AS for the media files, you can tell the media files were collected from other website. For example: why are some video files in MPEG format, while others in Real Media format? The MPEG commercials he is referring to are likely the Japanese Sonic commercials found on Sonic Jam, which I recall began circulating on the Internet in MPEG format back in 1998. The cartoons in "Real Media" format were likely taken from SegaSonic.net's website.

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“	Hi, I have a small, but devoted Sonic The Hedgehog site. Making the assumption you are a Sonic fan yourself, I'm requesting you take a look at my site. I'm hoping you might be able to help me. I have tons and tons and tons of Sonic the Hedgehog related material. MPEGed commercials, every code for every game, (from master system to dreamcast) including the game genie codes. I have about every one of the Cartoons on real video, along with the Sonic Anime. I have audio tracks of both us and japanese versions of sonic cd. I have information on all platforms. I have all the Sonic cd animations in mpeg as well. (even one parody mpeg!) All I can say is, look at the site. see if it meets your approval. Right now all i have on the site is game information, due to space limitations. But you can see how devoted and how detailed i am. I do most of my HTML in a wordpad/frontpage mixture. http://members.tripod.com/pasofami/ Thank you for a chance, --PACHUKA	„

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Now let's inspect his website. Using "Way Back Machine", we can see how his website first appeared when it launched in Feb 1999. https://web.archive.org/web/19990219152607/http://members.tripod.com/pasofami/

At first glace, it appears to be a website with a random collection of things organized by game title, as stated in the email. But as any keen eyed Internet surfer from the 90's can tell you, what he is listing was nothing unique from what you could find on other Sonic websites at the time. For example: the "Pirate" games were discussed on Andre Dirk's SoStH website. In essence, his website was a cache of various information that was circulating on the Internet at the time, including SSRG. A useful endeavor, but let's be honest here: he is NOT the source of the information found on his site! And that's the key point I want to make.

As for his hosting request, it was denied. And from what I recall for several reasons:

1) Pachuka wanted me to host a media file driven site (videos and music) which were easy to build, an even easier way to draw traffic, but would be a bandwidth, diskspace, and possible legal headache.

2) His site didn't offer anything new or unique that wasn't already found on other websites at the time. In addition, he was NOT the source of information on his site, nor did he log whom was the source of said data. (The latter which went against an SSRG group standard I had established at the time.) Furthermore, he failed to demonstrate he was able to produce new information. (At least at the time.)

3) The foul language (I evidently told him to clean-up the language used on the page)

Some like to speculate that after this email exchange, Pachuka and I made some exclusive deal to share information from his website to SSRG. That is a flat out lie. He didn't have anything unique to offer, so why make such a deal? Trust me, if his website had anything new to offer, I would have taken notice as I made alliances as I had with other Sonic researchers and game modders at the time. Furthermore, I either had copies or could access the data he had on his website, so again, no, he did not have some exclusive set of data on his site.

Some also speculate that not only did we have a secret alliance, but I tried to get an account setup for Pachuka on the server at the time as well (1999), but it was denied by the ZTNET administrators. If we are talking pre-2002, then that was not Pachuka, but rather Tom Sonic. Tom had an account on the server, but later lost access after the server admins caught him misusing his shell access.

Oh, and let's not forget that PACHUKA did not update the website for several months in 1999 or 2000. So why partner with a website that is not being maintained?

And here is one detail many Sonic Cult fans fail to mention. From what I recall, when Pachuka returned from the aforementioned absence, he more or less stated the reason for his absence on his website, claiming he was in jail trying to resolve a criminal charge. As for what, he said something along the lines of, "I guess that is what happens when you steal a car." In other word, car theft. This was the explanation of his jail stint that had circulated in the community at the time. Not publicly but amongst piers. In 2002 during the peak of the arguments between SSRG and SC, Pachuka was pressed on this criminal matter in chat. He changed his story and claimed he did not go to jail for stealing a car, but rather for some other reason, a reason he could not tell us. NOTE: this jail stint is believed to be his first of two related jails stints for a similar class of crimes. (And no, not car theft.)

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Back to the article. The claim it is making is that Pachuka had a repository of Game Genie cheat codes that allowed him to edit the color palette, the text, and the "playlist" in Sonic 2. (Not sure what "playlist" means, perhaps the ordering of levels or music?) And that he used said info to make a hack of Sonic 2. (Likely a ROM hack.)

For those that are unaware, what Game Genie does is force the value at certain memory addresses to a specific value. You can, as an example, use it to change bytes in ROM to change a color on Sonic's color palette, or the starting value of live. What address you impact with what data is dependent on the Game Genie code used. And it's possible to go from a Game Genie code to an address/value pair in ROM, and vis versa. In fact, some used Game Genie as an early, more accessible yet restricted means of ROM hacking.

But I am highly suspicious of this claim. If Pachuka had such information in Feb 1999, it would have been ground breaking for the time. Saxman's Sonic 2 hacking guide had broken ground a few month prior, and Saxman is not certain if he had cracked the color palette just yet or not. So if Pachuka had a Game Genie code to do such things as alter the color palette, change text or the "playlist", then those Game Genie codes could have been converted to address/value pairs and then looked into more deeply using a hex editor. It would have truly been a note worthy event in early Sonic ROM hacking.

And while reading the claim, I can't help but notice that it sounds a lot like what was being done by others in the community.

- Months prior in 1998, Tom Sonic of "Tom Sonic's Hacking Station" took a "Pro Action Replay" code, (similar to Game Genie), that allowed you to access Hidden Palace Zone in the commercial release of Sonic 2, and used it to hack a Genecyst savestate so others without an PAR device could access the level using an emulator.

- In 1999, Cyan released the "Sonic 1 Beta Hoax" ROM hack that, amongst other things, altered the color palette, and changes text on the level select screen.

With that said, it honestly feels that the original authors of the wiki article are seriously confusing historical events of the time. It possible that sometime later Pachuka instead made a ROM hack using Saxman's Sonic 2 hacking guide that did more-or-less what the article claims and published it.

But let's assume for a moment that claim is true, that Pachuka toyed around with various Game Genie codes until he found something interesting. Or that someone gave him some unique codes exclusively for his page. So, where are those codes today? You would think they would be kicking around somewhere. At least preserved by a fan of Sonic Cult? I searched the internet and was only able to find this YouTube video talking about Game Genie codes that changes Sonic color palette in ROM. Neat, but who found or developed the codes originally? The creator of the video, Pachuka or someone else? And when? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byp4C72tTjc

And let's not forget that Pachuka, through-out his history running Sonic Cult, had a habit of stealing content from other websites and then claiming it to be uniquely his, even saying (more or less) "This is the Internet, I can do what I want. If you don't want it copied, then don't post it on the Internet". Had he properly credited the source of said information on his site, it might have been possible to trace which Game Genie codes, if any, he contributed.

With possible exception to the color palette changes, there is no evidence of Game Genie codes capable of doing what is claimed in the article, never mind if they were created to Pachuka. And for those reasons, I am declaring this statement FALSE. It's possible Pachuka had an archive of unofficial Game Genie codes on his site, but it was nothing noteworthy or exciting for the time.

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But what about the "research scene—information on the Wai Sonic 2 Beta and magazine scans" claim?

Assuming Pachuka made contributions to Wai's site, and given what I said above, its highly likely Pachuka took information found elsewhere on the internet and contributed it to Simon Wai's S2Beta page. The key point here is this: did he take credit for the contribution or did he credit the original source? It's possible he might have contributed his own contributions into the mix, such as a magazine scan, or a sprite he noticed using Tile Layer Pro. But because he has a history of NOT crediting other people's work, it's hard to know what he should or shouldn't be credited for. So any contributions labeled as his has to be questioned.

Now, it is possible that Pachuka had some new information to contribute at this time, and maybe someone has evidence of a list of Game Genie codes he came-up with, or the magazine scans he is credited with contributing. If only Sonic Cult respected the source of information on his site and documented where it came from, his contributions would be easy to identify. Oh, the irony is not lost on me here! --NO CARRIER - 04/06/2026

PACHUKA and saxman

Info here is wrong. At least three separate events were combined into one story. Furthermore, why is this even here? How does a political squabble relate to the history of SC?

• Feb 2000 - DNS traffic for various sites managed by ZTNET were redirected to point to a page with an obscene image. This redirection was done by Jeremy Chadwick, who used to work for ZTNet. PACHUKA was never implicated. Read more about it here: http://www.emulationzone.org/aboutus/holywar/hw4.htm

• Summer 2000 - SFGHQ, Fan Made Games and other sites were deleted by a rogue staffer. By comparing IP addresses of those who logged into the FTP server to delete the files to those that had credentials to access the server, the culprit was uncovered and determined to be "Ultra the Vamp" or "Ultra the Vampire". (Who later claimed it was done by "Bob Smiley".) TSSZ covered this event on their site. PACHUKA was never implicated.

• Summer 2002 ? - PACHUKA gained access to the news scripts on Emulation Zone and (I believe) SSRG, and posted some obscene messages. Either the night before or a few nights before, PACHUKA messaged Andy via AIM that he will more of less "be sorry". Shortly after the obscene messages were posted via the news scripts, Andy received two messages via AIM from two separate and unknown AIM accounts stating concern about the obscene messages. The timing and volume of said messages are suspect and likely pre-planned as other events did not trigger such a rapid and unison response from anonymous folks. The styling and content of the obscene messages, along with the ominous message received prior, all made PACHUKA a suspect. But how did he gain access?

Sometime after the incident, SSRG staff member Ultima admitted to Andy that he had given PACHUKA the credentials to access the new scripts. Ultima's access to SSRG / Emulation Zone were revoked as a result. Ultima later apologized to Andy for his actions, stating he did not know why he provided that information. (Victim of sly social engineering?)

SIDE NOTE: at the time of the event, PACHUKA did not access to the new scripts. He was given access at some point, but his access was revoked for bad behavior before this event occurred.

I know this article was written by past Sonic Cult members years ago with a favorable bias towards PACKUKA, but the twisting of facts discredits this entire section and causes it to be labeled as fake. Also, I noticed said authors have a history of going to great lengths to claim how certain people PACHUKA harassed or tormented later became "friends". While I am certain that is true in certain situation, I also know that some folks agreed to be "friends" either to shut him up, to avoid being his next target, or because they were genuinely afraid of him and for their safety if they didn't accept his terms. And given what was known at the time and especially later on regarding PACHUKA's behavior inside and outside the Sonic community, their fear was rational.

--NO CARRIER - 10/04/2023

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"As Sonic CulT began to grow, in 2000, Andy Wolan of the Sonic Stuff Research Group attempted to join the two together."

A "partnership", or "merger" of SSRG and Sonic Cult was NEVER discussed. His site was small and had no unique content. (More above)

However, Andy did agree to give PACHUKA a second chance in the Sonic community. (2000? 2001? 2002? My guess is 2002 because everything started to go south following the spring 2002 semester.) Andy gave PACHUKA a chance to show he can be trusted by granting him access to the news scripts to post relevant news, and made him a board moderator to help moderate the boards. (Or he was unbanned and made board mod.) Andy also tried to grant him an EmulationZone email account, but ZTNET would not have any of that due to PACHUKA's behavior at other emulation sites. (Behavior Andy was not aware of until years later.) Granting PACHUKA such level of access was met with rejection by some on the Emulation Zone and SSRG staff, as many voiced their concern to Andy. But Andy stood by this matter for a few reasons:

• PACHUKA had great enthusiasm, which if directed properly could benefit the community
• PACHUKA had a knack in talking with people, meaning he might be able to get SEGA dev in his area to cough-up info about the Sonic games
• It was the Christian thing to do

Andy knew it was a gamble, but felt is was worth taking. So much so that he put his reputation on the line. In addition, it was also understood that PACHUKA would run his own site independently of SSRG, and the drama on Sonic Cult would stay on that site and not spill over to SSRG, and vis versa. (Side note: some folks were ok with it him regaining access to the message board because he would just try to gain access some other way anyways.)

At first, this plan seemed to be going well. But after a month or two, it began to deteriorate after PACHUKA began testing the boundaries of his privilege's on the forum. For example, he would replace his avatars with obscene imagery involving other forum members, post phallic symbols, or post insulting messages about others on the forum. Andy asked PACHUKA to knock it off, which he would do temporarily, but PACHUKA would continue after backing off for a while. He even went as far as to argue that the phallic images were "rocket ships" and that "you are the one with a dirty mind". His behavior even scared away people who wanted to join the site.

The final straw came when PACHUKA was trying to encourage someone on the forum to commit suicide. Andy asked the board moderators to immediately kick PACHUKA off the forums. (Access to the news scripts were also revoked.) While the board moderators initially complied, sadly, his access was later reinstated by another board admin whom PACHUKA was chummy with. Andy then had to argue with the board mod about his actions to reinstate PACHUKA, and as you can imagine PACHUKA playing this drama to his advantage.

And yes, there is more but that was the key event.

So to everyone wanted to know why Andy developed a distrust of PACHUKA, it's because he put his reputation on the line to give PACHUKA a second chance only to watch it backfire horrendously. --NO CARRIER - 10/04/2023

Sonic CulT and SSRG

Comments:

• "Since saxman and PACHUKA had recently made up" When? The situation discussed under "PACHUKA and saxman" in the original article, as described, never happened.
• The whole situation started originally over an argument between Stealth and Saxman. (Over what, I am not sure.) Andy tried to step in and deescalate it, but unfortunately it instead escalated to an argument between Saxman and Andy. That lead to Saxman's account being suspended (NOT deleted) until the matter could be resolved. But before that resolution could be discussion, PACHUKA inserted himself into the argument. Given PACHUKA's behavior towards others in the community, it is clear he did not want to see the matter resolved, but rather wanted to see it escalate as a divided SSRG would only benefit him and not the parties involved. He did so by making details of the internal dispute public and even shared chat logs that were supposed to remain private. PACHUKA's actions only made the matter worse, resulting in a rift to form between SSRG and Saxman.
• Ultima was removed from SSRG for providing PACHUKA the log in credentials to the news scripts, as mentioned above, leading to an obscene messages being posted by PACHUKA. I lost trust in him because of that and he said he understood, apologizing some time later.
• Regarding GerbilSoft, in hindsight his site fell victim to PACHUKA causing a rift between SSRG and Saxman.
• "saxman never got his site back from Andy" The data? False. Domain name? Somewhat true, as it was registered by ZTNET but its registration had expired when the events occurred. Only thing that had to be done was payment to renew the registration.

--NO CARRIER - 10/04/2023

The Fall of SSRG

Some missing details:

• Chaos was selected by Andy after a 2-4 months long search for a new head.

• Andy had a "claw-back" provision to retake control if new head did not run site properly. View old SSRG website backups via WayBack Machine to read the text if you don't believe me. Some folks like to pretend this provision never existed because it fits their narrative.

• "Chaos got along with PACHUKA better than Andy had, and the two managed to form a 'peace treaty'."

Article fails to state that Chaos later said that the 'peace treaty' was a mistake as PACHUKA would not honor it long term once the situation benefited PACHUKA. (IE - he realized the deal was flawed as PACHUKA could not be trusted.) He also apologize to Andy for accepting the "peace treaty" on two separate occasions.

• Andy had given PACHUKA a chance to redeem himself in 2001 or 2002, and it backfired on Andy horrendously. He had every right not to trust this deal. And given what was later learned about PACHUKA behavior inside and outside the Sonic community, how can you honestly trust what PACHUKA says?

--NO CARRIER - 10/04/2023

Rise to Power

"When SSRG closed down, Sonic CulT had already become the largest Sonic research site in the community."

His site was one of the largest, if not the largest after SSRG's shutdown. (Jan 2003.) However, this entire WIKI article fails to state how PACHUKA's site grew using information stolen data from other Sonic secrets sites. When questioned, he said something along the lines of, "it's on the internet, so I can do what I want." It's still called theft. His site grew in popularity off the backs off people whom were never credited, and when those sites balked at it, he or his members harassed them.

It is worth noting that this claim to being the largest Sonic Research site would be challenged as early as 2004 by other new sites. Based on the issues his site experienced in 2004, you could argue the site was quickly dethroned of that title.

--NO CARRIER - 10/04/2023

Mass editing and commenting

Andy, please in future either just replace the section or put up the edited text in here for discussion. Comments on the actual article such as "(replace above with this)" or "(this section isn't needed)" aren't appropriate for the articles themselves. Keep it to the talk pages, ta. --Cinossu 16:27, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Remove "DUSTHILL IS FAKE"

I vote to delete this "DUSTHILL IS FAKE" paragraph. It adds nothing. --NO CARRIER

A decade later, I still stand by this statement. Put this under the "PACHUKA" user page of Sonic Retro instead as it chronicles when he returned from jail.

[Update] It was later revealed that "Dusthill" was an actual level style being worked on, with a "winter" version via pallet swap also considered. So it's not "fake", but rather was on the drawing board, had digital assets made (including animated assets), but no level was ever designed, not even on paper. "Advanced concept stage" is a better term. --NO CARRIER - 10/04/2023

Hmmm

So other than the fact that this page is horribly out of date, should Current Status in the infobox be changed to something like "unattended" or "no longer maintained" rather than "online"? It seems like that would make more sense. --PicklePower 05:13, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Update: A banner was added in 2024. [03/2024]

Original Comment

Holy shit this page needs to be expanded.

Is this comment old? The page seems quite extensive now--maybe we should remove the "cleanup" tag? --Tweaker 17:36, 28 December 2007 (CST)

Oh, it still needs a lot of cleanup. I'm doing my best, but I'll need Saz's help because I wasn't around to see most of this shit happening. --Aurochs (Talk | Block)

I strongly suggest rewriting this WIKI so it focuses on the actual accomplishment of Sonic Cult, not the problems it caused or political squabbles it created. But it that is all it accomplished, then this page can be reduced heavily --NO CARRIER - 10/04/2023

final comment

To everyone that encouraged the sharing of "shit posts" about Andy and Saxman in this article in the name of exposing "the truth", why is everyone so scared to mention the elephant in the room, and that being why PACHUKA went to jail on two occasions? Why are folks suppressing that information?

--NO CARRIER - 10/04/2023

Andy, this is drama from two decades ago. It's unfortunate that there's still bad blood between you two, but the rest of the community has grown up and moved on. There are community members who weren't even born yet when this all went down. -SoNick (talk) 02:37, 8 April 2024 (EDT)