View source for S2B Topic 9093

This was originally a textfile archive of Sonic 2 Beta's Topic 9093 "I'm Leaving", ostensibly posted by Tweaker. Unfortuantely the archiver ([[User:Aurochs|Aurochs]]) did not save the original post. Instead, he started with Rainer's post on Page 5.

START POST ARCHIVE
--------------------------------------
'''Rainer:'''

I really don't want to waste another trial post into this drama, but this is something I need to address.

A few moments ago, I recieved a PM from Qjimbo after asking for him to unban Tweaker and let Tweaker himself decide if he wants to stay or leave, and this is the PM I recieved in response:

<blockquote><i>
Look whats happened since Tweaker has left

* Cool people have come back
* It feel like 8months ago
* The atmosphere has improved
* Everyone is in good spirits
* The board isn't nannied

Maybe that will help you understand the truth behind what happened.
</i></blockquote>

I think this is a very smart community, and I found out what the hell is going on, so I'll give all of you a little hint: Tweaker's banning was no fucking accident.
---------------------------------------
'''Aurochs:'''

Rainer is precicely correct. Qjimbo hath become Hattusili III.

I wasn't a particuraly big fan of Tweaker's adminship, but this? How can Qjimbo be called a better admin if he does things like this? He has shown that he is more than willing to bend to popular will. He has shown that he is willing to abuse a man's trust to do so. He has caused drama on a message board founded in the principal that drama should not be tolerated. And he has defied the authority of the site's owner to appoint administrators. No honest man should be willing to do such things, nor should any fair ruler.

What respect I had for you, James, is gone. I don't see you as a good administrator. I don't even see you as a good person anymore.
-----------------------------------------
'''Qjimbo:'''

I do see your logic.

However, I am patriotic to this site. I care about this community deeply. And to see people I liked a lot leave to never return made me sad. This was the only solution I could think of. It's not "popular will", it's solving problems that have been caused with a brute force method. Yeah I agree it's not nice, but sometimes to solve problems we have to take aggressive action.

Maybe this does make me a bad person, but I think it depends what goals you have in mind. I'm not doing it for power, kicks, or anything like that. I'm doing it to save the forum and get things back on track.
------------------------------------------
'''SCS:'''

Jimbo, you oughtta be ashamed of yourself! If you didn't like the administration here, you should've left and gone somewhere else where all the 'cool' people were! Maybe made your own board and told everyone about it, so you could run things the way YOU like. But no, you try to destroy THIS one. What you did was terrible, Jimbo. Absolutely terrible, and there's no excuse for it. If you don't like your leadership, then go find leadership you DO like, or begin your own leadership. Don't abuse your powers and sacrifice your dignity like this. How can anyone trust you after you've benignly pulled something like this? Who wants a leader they can't trust? I mean, if you wanted to ban someone, why didn't you ban Saz anyway?!
-------------------------------------------
'''Quickman:'''

I'm Quickman, and I approve this message.

Qjimbo and I masterminded this plan shortly before we both went for a long nap which lasted from half past eleven in the morning to about seven in the evening (in my case, at least). Aurochs claims that what we have done is underhanded because we should have tried to bargain with Tweaker rather than pull the rug out from under his feet. We'd already tried bargaining, and the result was the mass exodus of good people which initially set the community for a crashlanding. We've managed to reverse that (if the IRC is anything to go by) which in my book can only be a good thing.

Sakura Courage Solo claims we should have tried to make our own forum and get the community to swap rather than stealing this own out from under Tweaker's nose. That was already attempted in the form of S2Vangar, which died a miserable death because nobody actually went to it. The only available option was outing Tweaker and making this a nicer community for everyone.
--------------------------------------------
'''paul:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Sakura Courage Solo @ Mar 25 2007, 04:49 PM) *<br>
<i>
Jimbo, you oughtta be ashamed of yourself! If you didn't like the administration here, you should've left and gone somewhere else where all the 'cool' people were! Maybe made your own board and told everyone about it, so you could run things the way YOU like. But no, you try to destroy THIS one. What you did was terrible, Jimbo. Absolutely terrible, and there's no excuse for it. If you don't like your leadership, then go find leadership you DO like, or begin your own leadership. Don't abuse your powers and sacrifice your dignity like this. How can anyone trust you after you've benignly pulled something like this? Who wants a leader they can't trust? I mean, if you wanted to ban someone, why didn't you ban Saz anyway?!
</i></blockquote>
He hasn't safrificed any dignity.

I don't think I've seen Qjimbo or Tweaker say they were ever friends.

Not to mention the vast amount of PARTY THREAD before the first complaints means this is a fine administrative decision.
--------------------------------------------
'''Rolken:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Qjimbo @ Mar 25 2007, 04:33 PM) *<br>
<i>
However, I am patriotic to this site. I care about this community deeply. And to see people I liked a lot leave to never return made me sad. This was the only solution I could think of.
</i></blockquote>

An essential part of decent leadership is recognizing that there are options and eventualities and circumstances that you will not think of or handle effectively. You failed.

If anyone else really thinks that there was no better way to institute a change in the community than to pretend to hack the site, forcibly exile the admin and impersonate him for his "leaving topic", then you fail too.
--------------------------------------------
'''Tweaker:'''

And so it comes to this!

I must admit, I'm not all too surprised. In fact, a big hint was revisiting the Kamikaze incident - you still didn't seem all too happy about that! But, my trust remained in you - after all, we've known each other for a while, right? Great buds! Two of a kind!

Hah. Hardly.

I trusted you with everything laid before you. I mean, hey, no reason not to, right? And, yet, you come here, and you betray my trust, just like that! I mean, it doesn't mean anything, right? I even gave you admin, I trusted you so much! What better trust is that?

Believe me, people, if I were to leave, I'd do it in a HUGE bang. You would never forget my name! And I sure as hell wouldn't let some shitty hack (fake, mind you) get in the way of me keeping this place in shape.

You wonder why people left? Because they can't handle restrictions. This forum is supposed to be one of the best hacking and research forums out there, not a breeding ground for idiots who have nothing better to do than post about cocks and other useless bullshit.

But even if it wasn't? It doesn't matter. And guess what? Just because you host this board, doesn't make it yours - it makes you the host, and you agreed to take that position in whatever stride you had left. But to try and take over? For shame. Especially knowing I'd be gone the whole day. But I guess you didn't count on me being able to figure out what you had planned... You see, just as you had betrayed my trust, others returned to you the same favor. What you're doing is admirable, for sure, but what did you expect to happen? Did you expect me to simply keep out? And alas, maybe I would, had you not tried to bullshit your way around this. I can live without S2B, but I can't leave as long as I know it's run by faggots like you.

I also hear our good friend Quickman had something to do with it! For shame, I expected better out of you! But, you see, if S2B was meant to be the way it was before Simon took off, then it would be. But this forum is better than that. You guys could easily fuck about if you weren't being so stupid about it. In fact, people had fun on this board back in 2004, and Simon didn't take shit then, either, just like me! And yet, you wonder why I keep the place in line, the way I do... Well, let me tell you.

You see, I'd rather have a forum with good discussion quite rarely, than one extremely active with a bunch of spamming, invincible faggots on it. The people who left did so of their own will, because they couldn't handle making decent discussion enough to WANT to stay! Of course, it'd be easier to blame it on Tweaker, and it'd be fair for them to - I kept the faggotry out.

I can say that, as time goes on, the atmosphere of this board changes rapidly. However, to let the newcomers change what this board is about is unacceptable. You're trying to do that right now; you're trying to turn this board back into the place where people can say anything irrelevant to a topic and not get banned. You're trying to turn this back into a board where there's constant retarded IRC drama, and everybody hates each other. You're trying to turn this into a breeding ground for the trolls of tommorow. And you call that "better"?

If you hated the board that much, then you shouldn't have accepted the mod position I gave you. You shouldn't have offered to host us. And for fucks sake, you shouldn't have done something so GODDAMN STUPID. If you had so much support for your retarded ideals, then S2Vangar would have worked. And you shouldn't have tried bullshitting yourself on the surface and promoted that, instead of S2Beta.

Will this post be deleted? Probably. But I will make good god damn sure that this message spreads. I'm sorry if I lost support with my words, but this is not Qjimbo's board to take, and it never will be.
--------------------------------------------
'''Qjimbo:'''

Correct. It's not my board to take. It's the communities board to take. It's time things got a little fairer between the administration and the community.
--------------------------------------------
'''Tweaker:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Qjimbo @ Mar 25 2007, 05:19 PM) *<br>
<i>
Correct. It's not my board to take. It's the communities board to take. It's time things got a little fairer between the administration and the community.
</i></blockquote>

No dear, it really isn't. Do you see "This board is run by the community!" anywhere? Do you see everyone on the board with admin?

I didn't think so.

Also, you should stop IP banning me. It's rude.
---------------------------------------------
'''paul:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Dirty Justice @ Mar 25 2007, 05:15 PM) *<br>
<i>
You wonder why people left? Because they can't handle restrictions. This forum is supposed to be one of the best hacking and research forums out there, not a breeding ground for idiots who have nothing better to do than post about cocks and other useless bullshit.
</i></blockquote>

Shit stays in its forum. Hacking stays in its own. Stopping people mixing and chilling with their friends in the way they like is asinine, especially when it is VERY easy to keep in its own section. When people are paid to produce hacks for an outdated video fucking game and spent their time researching why every single fucking bit of a Sonic game existed, then you can run it as a corporation as opposed to a FORUM.

You know, the things you discuss things on and have fun with?

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
Especially knowing I'd be gone the whole day.
</i></blockquote>

I think you'll find this was simply the worst luck ever.

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
But I guess you didn't count on me being able to figure out what you had planned... You see, just as you had betrayed my trust, others returned to you the same favor. What you're doing is admirable, for sure, but what did you expect to happen? Did you expect me to simply keep out? And alas, maybe I would, had you not tried to bullshit your way around this. I can live without S2B, but I can't leave as long as I know it's run by faggots like you.
</i></blockquote>

Get real. Of course you'd figure it out. And you, keep out of it? Honestly? Isn't that what people TRIED to do - play nicely with you?

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
In fact, people had fun on this board back in 2004, and Simon didn't take shit then, either, just like me! And yet, you wonder why I keep the place in line, the way I do... Well, let me tell you.
</i></blockquote>

You are nowhere near the same.

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
You see, I'd rather have
</i></blockquote>

Clearly a large chunk of people don't. Check the rest of this very happy thread, and the approximate megabyte of plaintext generated by the IRC.

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
The people who left did so of their own will, because they couldn't handle making decent discussion enough to WANT to stay!
</i></blockquote>

That was totally why I left. Completely. Absolutely.

Dick.

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
If you had so much support for your retarded ideals, then S2Vangar would have worked. And you shouldn't have tried bullshitting yourself on the surface and promoted that, instead of S2Beta.
</i></blockquote>

Once again, completely fucking retarded arguement.

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
this is not Qjimbo's board to take, and it never will be.
</i></blockquote>

Correct - it's the forum users.
---------------------------------------------------
'''Rainer:'''

This is such a smarmy and underhanded way of operating this, I honestly don't believe that Qjimbo is any better than Tweaker by doing this. And for those of you saying that everything is getting better, it's only been less than a day, you dipshits.

But most importantly, you did all of this shit behind the main guy, LocalH. You arrogant assholes forgot that it's his goddamn decision to select who will administrate under him. Believe me, I've bitched at Tweaker for quite a bit, and even I disagree with this fucking dictatorship "I know what's best and you should all shut up and listen to mother" mentallity Qjimbo and a lot of you supporters are carrying. If you can only handle situations by taking out leaders with force, then you fucking fail at administrating. Not only that, but you fucking lied to everyone and slienced Tweaker so he couldn't speak for himself. Not only are you assholes, but you're fucking pussies as well.

At the same time, quit draping yourselves as Ghandi figures who liberated the forums, all you did was fucking mutiny and took a shit on someone's trust they had for the boards.

You can bitch and moan at me all you want, and say how right you are, but you damn well know what you did. 
------------------------------------------------------
'''Tweaker:'''

Once again, I reiterate - in no way, shape, or form, is this forum the property of its users. Your being here is a privilege, and certainly not a right - otherwise there wouldn't be such strict guidelines to get in.
-----------------------------------------------------
'''Quickman:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Rolken)<br>
<i>
Yeah, yeah, same old story. It's important enough for folks to conspire on complex plans to persuade the admins into putting the site on their server and then revamp the community for
</i></blockquote>

The plan wasn't conceived of until way after the server move. Like I said, we came up with it Saturday morning. We were both tired and decided we needed to do something.

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Sakura Courage Solo)<br>
<i>
Okay, Quickie, lemme just say that if people didn't come to S2Vangar, it's probably because you either didn't advertise the board very well, or because everyone figured that if YOU were running the show, it'd probably be practically no rules with anyone able to do/say anything. Now I've never heard of this S2Vangar, so you're either pulling my leg, I was deaf and blind to it, or you didn't do much advertising on it.
</i></blockquote>

Congratulations, you're talking out of your ass. I didn't have anything to do with S2Vangar, I only know of its existence and that it failed miserably because the community is as stubborn as it is oblivious sometimes.

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Sakura Courage Solo also)<br>
<i>
Besides, who says the discussion has to be on a board anyway? If you wanna discuss this stuff, why don't you get all your friends together on an IRC channel or in a chatroom on AOL, YIM, MSN or something like that?
</i></blockquote>

Because IRC and realtime services tend to be breeding grounds for cockcockcockcockcockcockcock discussion moreso than forums. The constant IRC drama has proven that.

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Tweaker-- ER I MEAN Dirty Justice)<br>
<i>
You wonder why people left? Because they can't handle restrictions.
</i></blockquote>

No, we like restrictions. We don't like being ignored and shoved aside because we can't be ultraserious ROM hackers all the time, and we need to blow off as much as anyone. The things you did (like banning "party threads", thereby completely obliterating happy discussion of nontechnical matters which under your jurisdiction fell under the same banner) gave us one big message: fuck you. You didn't really care about our wishes - you were all talk and no compromise. Simon would only override us if we had a really good reason for it; you listened to our opinions and then ignored them.

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Tweaker-- ER I MEAN Dirty Justice)<br>
<i>
You're trying to do that right now; you're trying to turn this board back into the place where people can say anything irrelevant to a topic and not get banned.
</i></blockquote>

No, we're trying to make this a place where one irrelevant comment in a discussion does not derail the whole thing. Just like how Simon kept it.

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Tweaker-- ER I MEAN Dirty Justice)<br>
<i>
If you had so much support for your retarded ideals, then S2Vangar would have worked.
</i></blockquote>

Except it didn't, because S2Vangar was a shitty way of creating an "alternative" to S2B. (Hint: the alternative should be at least as professional as the original to be effective. S2Vangar was not.)

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Dirty J-- oh fuck it, Tweaker)<br>
<i>
I also hear our good friend Quickman had something to do with it! For shame, I expected better out of you!
</i></blockquote>

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -- Edward Burke
------------------------------------------------------
'''paul:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Rainer @ Mar 25 2007, 05:27 PM) *<br>
<i>
This is such a smarmy and underhanded way of operating this, I honestly don't believe that Qjimbo is any better than Tweaker by doing this. And for those of you saying that everything is getting better, it's only been less than a day, you dipshits.

But most importantly, you did all of this shit behind the main guy, LocalH. You arrogant assholes forgot that it's his goddamn decision to select who will administrate under him. Believe me, I've bitched at Tweaker for quite a bit, and even I disagree with this fucking dictatorship "I know what's best and you should all shut up and listen to mother" mentallity Qjimbo and a lot of you supporters are carrying. If you can only handle situations by taking out leaders with force, then you fucking fail at administrating. Not only that, but you fucking lied to everyone and slienced Tweaker so he couldn't speak for himself. Not only are you assholes, but you're fucking pussies as well.

At the same time, quit draping yourselves as Ghandi figures who liberated the forums, all you did was fucking mutiny and took a shit on someone's trust they had for the boards.

You can bitch and moan at me all you want, and say how right you are, but you damn well know what you did.
</i></blockquote>

LocalH does FUCK. ALL.

He's handed the guns to Tweaker for a reason. Because he's never here and never does anything.

A little more obvious now?

In fact keeping Tweaker 'silent' was only so that we could have a discussion with LocalH when he came online about it.

And he didn't. Ho hum.

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
Once again, I reiterate - in no way, shape, or form, is this forum the property of its users. Your being here is a privilege, and certainly not a right - otherwise there wouldn't be such strict guidelines to get in.
</i></blockquote>

If typing that didn't make you feel at least a little mechanical, then I don't think there was ever a problem with this.
--------------------------------------------------------
'''Rolken:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Quickman @ Mar 25 2007, 05:30 PM) *<br>
<i>
The plan wasn't conceived of until way after the server move. Like I said, we came up with it Saturday morning. We were both tired and decided we needed to do something.
</i></blockquote>

Your compadres at least were most definitely planning things before Saturday morning; I was there.

<blockquote>
QUOTE(paul @ Mar 25 2007, 05:33 PM) *<br>
<i>
LocalH does FUCK. ALL.

He's handed the guns to Tweaker for a reason. Because he's never here and never does anything.

A little more obvious now?

In fact keeping Tweaker 'silent' was only so that we could have a discussion with LocalH when he came online about it.
</i></blockquote>

If you were planning to have a discussion with LocalH, would it really have killed you to have it *before* the insurrection rather than *after*? Seriously now. I thought you said this was your last resort.
----------------------------------------------------------
'''paul:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Rolken @ Mar 25 2007, 05:38 PM) *<br>
<i>
If you were planning to have a discussion with LocalH, would it really have killed you to have it *before* the insurrection rather than *after*? Seriously now. I thought you said this was your last resort.
</i></blockquote>

You think we didn't do that?

Many times?

LocalH is as stubborn as Tweaker is, if not worse. And does less, either good or bad.

Once you get ignored so many times and the same old shit goes down, you ned a bargaining chip. 
-----------------------------------------------------------
'''Qjimbo:'''

You assume I want to take absolute control of the board. Me and others are currently discussing ways of possibly running the board, maybe as a triumverate, a council, possibly involving elections of some kind. I just want it to be fair thats all.
-----------------------------------------------------------
'''Tweaker:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Qjimbo @ Mar 25 2007, 05:43 PM) *<br>
<i>
You assume I want to take absolute control of the board. Me and others are currently discussing ways of possibly running the board, maybe as a triumverate, a council, possibly involving elections of some kind. I just want it to be fair thats all.
</i></blockquote>

See, this is BAD.

This board is a DICTATORSHIP. It always has been, and I'll be damned if that EVER changes.
------------------------------------------------------------
'''Qjimbo:'''

It already has changed. I refuse to let things run in such a hideous fasion, though I guess it's up to the members.

Oh and before you start, Simon didn't run a dictatorship despite what he said. The tech members were a sort of meritocratic council.
------------------------------------------------------------
'''paul:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Dirty Justice @ Mar 25 2007, 05:44 PM) *<br>
<blockquote>
QUOTE(Qjimbo @ Mar 25 2007, 05:43 PM) *<br>
<i>
You assume I want to take absolute control of the board. Me and others are currently discussing ways of possibly running the board, maybe as a triumverate, a council, possibly involving elections of some kind. I just want it to be fair thats all.
</i></blockquote><i>
See, this is BAD.

This board is a DICTATORSHIP. It always has been, and I'll be damned if that EVER changes.
</i></blockquote>
It never was.

Dictators care about themselves only. Simon merely followed his own moral compass, and always listened.
-------------------------------------------------------------
'''Tweaker:'''

How hard is this to get into your heads?

'''THIS BOARD IS NOT A DEMOCRACY. WE DON'T "HAVE" TO DO ANYTHING FOR ANYBODY. YOU'RE ALL FREE TO LEAVE IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THIS FACT. WHETHER OR NOT I BASH YOU FOR BEING AN IDIOT FOR DOING SO, HOWEVER, IS A DIFFERENT SUBJECT ALTOGETHER.'''

'''QJIMBO HAS HIS OWN VIEWS; I HAVE MINE. THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT, EVEN IF QJIMBO WAS ON EQUAL GROUNDS TO TRY AND TAKE OVER AS SUCH, HE HAS NO RIGHT TO DO SO WITHOUT THE WORD FROM LOCALH. HE DIDN'T EVEN DECIDE TO MAKE YOU ADMIN - I DID. AND I ADMIT IT WAS A HORRIBLE MISTAKE THAT I VOW NEVER TO DO AGAIN. THIS WILL PROBABLY ALSO RESULT IN LESS STAFF, BUT, EH, YOU GET OVER IT.'''

'''ALSO, I LIKE CAPS I GUESS.'''
-------------------------------------------------------------
'''Rainer:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
You think we didn't do that?

Many times?

LocalH is as stubborn as Tweaker is, if not worse. And does less, either good or bad.

Once you get ignored so many times and the same old shit goes down, you ned a bargaining chip.
</i></blockquote>

I'm suprised that you never considered the option of, I don't know, not go postal and take control of a Message Board without the approval of anyone else but yourselves? Do you think that makes you less stubborn than Tweaker or some shit like that?

Is it even RIGHT to do something like that in the first place? If your logic were applied to world situations, I'm sure it would go like this "Okay, we tried negotiating with the Middle East, so we're just going to come in and put all of the leaders there to death and call it a day." I mean, it's childish and fucked up.

Seriously, at first it was a decent argument, but it seems like everyone else is just beating you over with the same shit, and it's not sinking in for some reason.

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
I like the way you think you're coming back into power. Face it it's over. You've had your run of the boards. Now it's time for everyone else to have an opinion.
</i></blockquote>

Hmm, how about my opinion of having my board NOT taken over by a insane administrator? Oh yeah, that doesn't count.
-------------------------------------------------------------
'''Quickman:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
'''THIS BOARD IS NOT A DEMOCRACY.'''
</i></blockquote>

But it's not a dictatorship either.

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
'''WE DON'T "HAVE" TO DO ANYTHING FOR ANYBODY. YOU'RE ALL FREE TO LEAVE IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THIS FACT. WHETHER OR NOT I BASH YOU FOR BEING AN IDIOT FOR DOING SO, HOWEVER, IS A DIFFERENT SUBJECT ALTOGETHER.'''
</i></blockquote>

We? Who's "we"?

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
'''QJIMBO HAS HIS OWN VIEWS; I HAVE MINE. THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT, EVEN IF QJIMBO WAS ON EQUAL GROUNDS TO TRY AND TAKE OVER AS SUCH, HE HAS NO RIGHT TO DO SO WITHOUT THE WORD FROM LOCALH.'''
</i></blockquote>

We'd already tried talking to LocalH. He didn't do anything. As usual.

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
'''HE DIDN'T EVEN DECIDE TO MAKE YOU ADMIN - I DID. AND I ADMIT IT WAS A HORRIBLE MISTAKE THAT I VOW NEVER TO DO AGAIN. THIS WILL PROBABLY ALSO RESULT IN LESS STAFF, BUT, EH, YOU GET OVER IT.'''
</i></blockquote>

Where exactly are you going to not make that mistake again?
-------------------------------------------------------------
'''Tweaker:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Qjimbo @ Mar 25 2007, 05:55 PM) *<br>
<i>
I like the way you think you're coming back into power. Face it it's over. You've had your run of the boards. Now it's time for everyone else to have an opinion.
</i></blockquote>

Well, there's only so much you can own of this place. I'll think of something.

And they DO have opinions. Doesn't mean I'm obligated to honor each and every one.

(I also like how you edited your post)
--------------------------------------------------------------
'''paul:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Rainer @ Mar 25 2007, 05:55 PM) *<br>
<i>
I'm suprised that you never considered the option of, I don't know, not go postal and take control of a Message Board without the approval of anyone else but yourselves?
</i></blockquote>

The number of 'ourselves' was easily high enough to represent a significant portion. Nobody is ever right 100% of the time, applies to everyone including us, and a lot of us thought this applied to the admins.

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
Do you think that makes you less stubborn than Tweaker or some shit like that?
</i></blockquote>

Stubborn or driven? The ideology we strive for is by nature not stubborn. To achieve it, maybe so.

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
Is it even RIGHT to do something like that in the first place?
</i></blockquote>

Morals are a persons own and are subjective. Many here say yes. What does this prove?

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
If your logic were applied to world situations, I'm sure it would go like this "Okay, we tried negotiating with the Middle East, so we're just going to come in and put all of the leaders there to death and call it a day."
</i></blockquote>

Because a web forum for recreation is exactly the same as a living country, and should be ran exactly the same, nice straw man.

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
Seriously, at first it was a decent argument, but it seems like everyone else is just beating you over with the same shit, and it's not sinking in for some reason.
</i></blockquote>

Doesn't need a response - this easily goes both ways.
---------------------------------------------------------------
'''Quickman:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
I'm suprised that you never considered the option of, I don't know, not go postal and take control of a Message Board without the approval of anyone else but yourselves? Do you think that makes you less stubborn than Tweaker or some shit like that?
</i></blockquote>

Not really. If negotiation fails there's little other choice but using force. If a big kid's stolen your donut, do you try and ask him for it back nicely? Sure you do. If he doesn't give it back? Hmm. Doesn't take a PhD in logic to see this one.

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
Is it even RIGHT to do something like that in the first place? If your logic were applied to world situations, I'm sure it would go like this "Okay, we tried negotiating with the Middle East, so we're just going to come in and put all of the leaders there to death and call it a day." I mean, it's childish and fucked up.
</i></blockquote>

What, so we're supposed to keep whining uselessly when it's already painfully obvious it's not working? I bet you'd complain about the whining then.

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
I like the way you think you're coming back into power. Face it it's over. You've had your run of the boards. Now it's time for everyone else to have an opinion.
</i></blockquote><i>

Hmm, how about my opinion of having my board NOT taken over by a insane administrator? Oh yeah, that doesn't count.
</i></blockquote>

Door's that way if you don't like it. There's plenty of people who are happier now Tweaker's had his toys taken away from him.

Also, I resent the accusation that Jim and I are insane.
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'''paul:'''

<blockquote>
QUOTE(Dirty Justice @ Mar 25 2007, 05:59 PM) *<br>
<i>
Well, there's only so much you can own of this place. I'll think of something.
</i></blockquote>

The domain name, and the IPB license. Yes, we know. No, this doesn't matter in the long run.

<blockquote>
QUOTE<br>
<i>
And they DO have opinions. Doesn't mean I'm obligated to honor each and every one.
</i></blockquote>

pretty please could you honour just a few more in future then
 
''ED: [[User:LocalH|LocalH]] owns the domain name, and [[User:Aurochs|Aurochs]] owns the IPB license.''
----------------------------------------------------------------
'''Rainer:'''

For those who wish to continue debating: There is no winning with these people. If you ignore them you are then put into the place of supporting them, and if you argue with them, you are suddenly trying to impose your views, as you are then classified with labels.

Also paul, you don't need a moral opinion to say if some things are bad. Most people when asked about the Holocaust (yeah, you're going to call Godwins law after that statement) dont answer with "Morals are a persons own and are subjective."

Those who disagree, you're not going to win, so let's just leave the goddamn boards and let them and their inabillity to manage things in a mature manner work for them. I know for sure I'm going to leave after this post.
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'''Shade:'''

I would just like to interject here and stress something:

We are doing this to get the attention of an administration that refused to listen. This is not an "ALL YOUR BASE" thing (as of now). This is us grabbing the administration's balls and going "Hey. Assholes. Let's talk."

What happens next will be largely influenced by their response, and the community's majority opinion.


As for Tweaker, I never supported him as admin. A lot of people didn't. Of course LocalH (who does jack all, I might add), would not hear of it. Tweaker in my view, is the temper prone kid who got ahold of the gun. He lacks the ability to views matters objectively, and calm and collectedly. Its MEMEMEMEMEMEMEME.

Now most of us members don't agree that this is how S2B should be run. The admins refused to hear us out; now they're going to have to.

This is our motion to get the parent to listen.
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END POST ARCHIVE

After this point, there are no useful replies. The topic was trashed on page 11.

[[Category:Sonic Retro Community]]