Sonic the Hedgehog 3C (prototype 0408)

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Old cack

This used to live at "Sonic the Hedgehog 3C (prototype 0408)/Thread Dump". It's a sub-page that's been lost to time and much of it was incorporated into this page anyway.


I quite like this plan, but we need to do it more intelligently (e.g. with templates). As I've hinted at a bazillion times before, we need full maps of all the levels from all of the prototypes to do a proper comparison - "the layout is different" is just a wee bit vague.

:''This is a sorted dump of observations from Sonic 3C 0408. For the main page, see [[Sonic the Hedgehog 3C (prototype 0408)]]''.

=Sorted Thread Dump of Sonic 3C 0408=

* Sound test is enabled by default.
* Shields don't block bullets.
* Some sound effects are missing.
* Seems like Knuckles can jump higher and also that hitting a power-up in LRZ with the end-of-level sign yields rocket power-up that lands on the bottom of the rock platform (go forward once act 2 starts and then go back).
* The "S" Box is replaced with a lightning shield for Debug Mode
* Monitors haven't been updated yet. If you hit them from the bottom they bounce up and then fall down (like in s3). In the final they just break (probably so they can't kill you anymore). Also, in the final you can break them by jumping against their side. That doesn't work here.
* Sonic's roll deceleration hasn't been fixed yet. You know how in s2 Super Sonic has really bad rolling (he slows down really fast)? Well, that hasn't been fixed yet here.
* The bug where Sonic uses his walking animation during a spin dash was not fixed.
* Hyper Sonic doesn't seem to exist in this beta. At least, he's not accessible through normal gameplay.
* In the final version, if Knuckles goes above the screen boundaries and tries to use his glide, the game slows him down extremely.
* the distinct "clap" sound you hear in the final when Knuckles latches onto a wall is absent from both this beta and the 0517 beta.
* Weird thing about picking Special Stage 2 from stage select: once you exit that special stage, you get dumped in a very glitchy Angel Island Zone Act 1. Background is hosed, Knuckles is a big glitch, collision is borked, and the level has water in it. If you die, you get sent back to the start of the level and die again immediately; this continues until you game over.
In this version, there is no such limitation, allowing him to do weird things like climbing on top of the zone.
* If you save in a level from Mushroom Hill to the Death Egg Zone, you can only pick the Sonic 3 levels from the save selection screen.

==[[Hydrocity Zone]]==

* Rings are missing.
* Lamppost is missing. Also, that last set of spikes were removed in the final.

==[[Marble Garden Zone]]==

* In the final S3&K, at the beginning of MGZ1, rolling as a ball down to the end of the last slope can get you stuck or sometimes embedded a bit into the wall, but in Sonic 3C prototype 0408, you get stuck farther into the wall.

* More spikes that weren't there in the final. (This is at the very end of MGZ2 before the boss)
* The boss has no sound effects yet, and the mini-boss music plays as it does in the final (except with the S3 music instead, of course)

==[[Carnival Night Zone]]==

* When Knuckles arrives at CNZ1, he just appears there, instead of walking in as he does in the final. Furthermore, Knuckles' side of CNZ1 seems to be completely devoid of enemies.
* Knuckles can cheat the CNZ1 boss by grabbing onto the wall. This allows for some strange visual glitches when you defeat the boss -- climb to the bottom of the wall and when the level "lands" you'll be floating in midair, or even wind up below the floor:
* This cylinder disappears in the final if you play as Knuckles.
* You cannot complete the act, but you can use the teleporter to move on to ICZ1.

==[[Launch Base Zone]]==

* You can face the 2nd boss of Launch Base before the 1st one.
* After defeating the boss as Sonic and/or Tails, Tails has too many tails. Can be seen in Sonic 3 and Knuckles during debug mode.

==[[Mushroom Hill Zone]]==

* Going through Mushroom Hill, I can't find any rings that take you to Hidden Palace, even though I have collected the first seven Chaos Emeralds. All I can find are the normal big rings that give you 50 rings. Is Tails doomed to a life of no super transformations?
* In Mushroom Hill Zone act 1, you fall instead of flying in.
* There should be an invincibility monitor somewhere in the act. Also, the layout is slighty different.
* If memory serves correctly, the monitor should be a lightning shield.
* There's no entry to the giant ring here. The big ring is not a super big ring.
* At a certain point in the boss fight, there should be explosions around Robotnik.
** In the egg cage at the end of the level, blue smoke comes out. (Oddly-colored smoke seems to be plaguing these protos.)
** Tails dies while running as the Flying Battery swoops down.
** Robotnik rises more slowly out of the ground.

* Knuckles gets dumped in a completely different part of the zone than he does in the final. His starting point in 0408 is (0x0440, 0x033C), while in S3&K final it's (0x0080, 0x096D) -- a point which doesn't even exist in 0408's version of the zone.
**Sonic and Tails, however, are dropped at the usual spot.
* Continuing on the MHZ trend, Knuckles can grab a lot more than he should be able to.
* The spring you must hit to get to the ledge to use the pulley machine isnt very reactive.
* There is no sound effect on the Pulley machine.
* Knuckles' lever is blue, not red. There is no sound effect. When knuckles pulls the lever it does not move down with his hand.
* After the palette change, the level layout is different again.
* There is a lack of weighted mushroom devices - but there is one on the bottom of the level, not right after the change.
* There is no gust of air that raises sonic during the mushroom flight, instead, there seems to be a similar air to Sky Sanctuary zone that mucks up sonic
* Ring placement is different.
* In the final, these breakable walls were shifted to the left. Interestingly, Knuckles cannot break them while gliding, but they break when he lands. (This is in MHZ2, directly after the last shots I posted) After that segment, the level layout is different.
* Touching the mini-boss' axe will hurt you in this proto, but not in the final.
* Another "extra" pair of tails for Tails.
* The super ring is missing... instead, a pair of monitors stuck in the ceiling? Knocking them down reveals... A little russian roulette action? The layout in this area is different, too. Both MHZ1 and MHZ2 received a lot of changes before the final, it seems.

* Boss - There is no sound effect on the chopping, when killed he does not break up.
* No sound effect on the boss' radar.
* It seems like he doesn't emerge until you destroy his satellite
* He stays there a lot longer after he comes out of the ground
* When you hit him during the running section you bounce off him much stronger
* The hits he takes before the running section don't count. In the final I think they do
** You can jump over the satellite dish and repeatedly hit the backside of the boss vehicle. This continues until you hit the satellite dish. As for the boss itself, it always takes 7 hits to destroy, regardless of how many times you hit it before the autoscrolling sequence.
* Defeating Eggman doesnt cause his ship to burn until he hits the log at the end of the level. The spike balls also disappear and do not burn.
* Upon releasing the animals at the end of the level, the pop smoke is blue, not grey.
* The cutscene has missing sound effect with Eggman, when Sonic is about to board, Tails continues to run and kills himself, rather than taking flight.
==[[Flying Battery Zone]]==

* Seems like Flying battery wasn't fully complete. Here's the same place on the proto and on the final version of the game.
* Lack of the brown tank enemy. Missing monkey bars in the first area.
* Attempting to do a Spin Dash on one of those propultion devices causes a glitch.
* Act 1's music has the terrible echo effect present in the sound test in the final  version of Sonic 3, but not in S3K.
* The magnets have no sound.

===Act 2===
*First monitor you reach is a ring, not an electric shield.
*Taking the first path down the spiral elevator, the hole is messed up that takes you to the bottom of the ship. There is also a flame machine and a brown tank badnik missing when you return into the ship. Further along, there is no fire shield or extra life.
*There are no magnetic arm things that pull sonic around.
*No sound on the fireball machines
*There is a foreground tile in the background tile layout, visible after the double button problem.
*No sound effects on the laser boss. Seemed easier.
*When you are locked off and the beam rises, there is two ring boxes instead of a red spring. If you die and return, the graphics are messed up. (EG clouds). Small tile changes, Before you meet the boss the room is indoors and there is no spikes. No sound effect on the rising beam.
*No sound effect on Eggman's fire, or the machine swinging.
*The boss had way too many swings and was defeated in one pattern. Sonic runs out of the base and doesn't spin down the door.
*This one's hard to notice, but if you listen to the FBZ1 music long enough, you'll notice that the gap between the main theme and the "echo" of the main theme increases over time, eventually resulting in something really weird.
View edit history 

==[[Sandopolis Zone]]==
===Act 1===
* You can move the moment you enter Sandopolis Act 1; you're no longer forced to wait until you land in the sand and have to pop out; you cannot land into the sand, you just fall onto the tile. This occurs in both protos.
* Some more differences: In Sandopolis Zone those little sand waterfalls you jump up don't produce a sound, and the collapsing blocks don't make a sound either upon crushing them.
* No sound effect on bumping through sand falls, no sound effect on breaking blocks. No sound effect pushing the moving rock on the conveyor.
* Extreme difficulty climbing the moving sand with the jump block to block bricks with the fire shield. Usually you can use the fire shield to fly up them.
* No sound effect on the falling sand wall.

===Act 2===
* The sand pillar in Sandopolis act 2 makes no sound and the switch makes no sounds either and the ghosts do not make a noise when the room gets darker the floating platforms do not make a noise.
* No sound on conveyor belt, no sound on closing doors, missing moving platform in the endless fall part.
* There seems to be a few removals of star signposts, the boss has no stomping sound when it walks, The little cliff jumping thing makes no sound when you kick off it, if you get hit by an enemy while in quicksand you get stuck in the damaged state and are unable to move until you fall to your death.
* One of those walls are hard to break.
* Strange behavior with the walking block robot thing and the crushing spikes thing.
* Fake monitors embedded in the floor.

====Knuckles' path====

*This moving platform was replaced with a spring in the final.
*This cylinder thing here moves back and forth in 0408, but is stationary in the final.
*This moving platform was replaced with that scorpion-bot. Some rings were added as well, and the light switch removed.
*Another mover removed in the final.

==[[Lava Reef Zone]]==
* You can walk on lava.
* Whole lot of extra stalactites on Act 1.
* Act 1 Mid Boss Area is located in Act 2

- Lava Reef Act 2 is missing a lot of sound effects -- the flame spewers, the twirling ladder things, etc.
- LRZ2 is a dead-end. The rock you're standing on floats to a nearby rock bridge you can jump on, which leads to the tunnel that WOULD go to HPZ, but the level transition doesn't kick in.
- The music after the Knuckles encounter is still Lava Reef Act 2. (IE During the missile chase.)
*There's no music change for when Knuckles pushes the rock onto you. The resulting scene change plays HPZ music again, and the boss music doesn't start until the actual boss fight.
*The pole you run around in Lava reef 1 while having animated sprites in the final only displays one single sprite. The propelling devices as well as magnets in flying battery zone have no sound.
* Lava Reef Zone - Act One. Identical until you reach the top room after the first encounter with the boss, there is an extra life in the room with the rings and the electric monitor instead of two red springs.
* No sound effect on the out of control metal spikeball.
* There are glitches in the rock floor during the act one boss.
* Apart from those changes, i cant see much difference with the final and beta Lava Reef Act one, It looks to be the most complete zone in this beta.
* o those are buried in the ground, and to get them to pop up you make the signpost land on them! I never could figure out what caused it, I thought it was totally random.
* Knuckles in LRZ2, drawn over the hidden passage to his section of the level.
==[[Hidden Palace Zone]]==

* Named '''Sky Sanctuary Act 1''' on the title card.
* Cannot be accessed through normal gameplay as Sonic and/or Tails as Lava Reef 2 ends in a dead end.
* Accessed through normal gameplay by completing Lava Reef 2 as Knuckles - did this by selecting Lava Reef 2 via level select, but before I read this topic and found the debug code, so it's not debug-related. =P
* When you battle Knuckles as Super Sonic in Hidden Palace Zone, you can still play as Super Sonic all through the end of the stage. In the final build of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, you transform back to regular Sonic after you defeated Knuckles in HPZ. There's no way to transform into Super/Hyper Sonic once you've defeated Knuckles in HPZ (even if you're in debug mode; breaking however many S boxes you place) and stays that way until you leave the stage.

==[[Sky Sanctuary Zone]]==

* [[Mecha Sonic]] is ridiculously hard; you're given no rings at all, and he swoops down at you way more than firing those blasts. His vulnerability window in his second attack phase seems a lot smaller, too. Also, the Master Emerald is drawn behind Floating Island instead of in front of it. The timer is frozen at 0:00, so you presumably have unlimited time to beat him. Once you do, he falls off the screen, and nothing else happens.
* The air that keeps you floating where Knuckles jumps on the button and extends the bridge is missing so you just die.
* There's no transition ending to Sky Sanctuary Zone Act 2. Death Egg Zone is missing a lot of sound effects.
* The first teleporter from the Green Hill zone boss in Sky Sanctuary spawns an off center teleporter. 
* In the final, you can't go into Sky Sanctuary Zone 1 as Knuckles. But in the beta you can, and.... Knuckles meets his long lost brother.
* Black explosions, it looks like badnik explosions are based on the level palettes.
* Minor tile change at this part.
* When you go to the Mecha Sonic arena the teleporter explodes itself, Mecha Sonic does not come into the arena.
* When going from SSZ act 2 back to the level select menu, the level select menu's background is tilted in the same way the floating island was when you left the zone.

==[[Death Egg Zone]]==

* Instead of a lightning monitor it's a spring in the 1st 4 way hover tunnels.
* The path where the platform that goes down when you used the left tunnel in the 4 way system doesn't contain any missile launchers or spikes.
* These spikes in DEZ do not harm you But as you walk to the end of the spikes you die

==[[Doomsday Zone]]==
* All sorts of jacked up
* Doomsday Zone 1 and 2 both use Death Egg's palette. As Sonic and Tails, Doomsday 1 loads broken Doomsday Zone level art, and Doomsday Zone music, along with an inert and broken up egg-robo sprite. The 'score time rings' display loads an incorrect palette, as does 'sonic'. There is also a line of rings at the beginning which have loaded the same palette as the HUD.
* Doomsday Zone 2 loads the Death Egg Zone 2 background, and has all the sprites of the giant egg-robot scattered around. It also loads the Death Egg 2 music. The 'score time rings' display and lives display load the correct palette in Doomsday Zone 2. There also exists here a similar line of rings as Doomsday 1, but with a slightly wrong palette.
* There's an interesting layout, lots of things to jump in and put, like holes and other things.

*Slot Machine Bonus has more of those peppermint-like platforms and reverse switches. Also the 3 in the lives counter is red.

==Other Things==
*Different animation. In the Final Metal Sonic's feet go back a little instead of just using a re-shaded charge up sprite
*In the final only 2 item boxes are present... Unfortunately I forget what the items in the shot were (Damn static)
*Knuckles Hydrocity underwater palette is different in this proto. Replaced by a bright purple color in the final (Bad choice)
*Knuckles' Carnival Night Act 1 path is completely devoid of enemies
*In the final the sign goes behind the Egg Capsule.
*There's nothing too mysterious about it. Obviously the game is trying to show the "Bonus Stage" title card, but by mistake, the game has loaded the patterns for the title card of the level you're playing in instead. Normally for text like this, there would be a complete tileset for every letter in the font at fixed positions. With this, you could have a single set of tiles, and write any text you care to. In this case however, because these letters are so big, and need to be displayed onscreen for a brief time while the level is also visible, they can't afford the space in the VRAM to have an entire font loaded. To get around this, they would have created separate tilesets for the title card of each level, containing just the characters they needed. The two first characters in every title card are probably O and E, most likely because they are part of the word most title cards contain: ZONE, which is why these are the only characters which the "Bonus Stage" title card mappings display correctly in every case.
*Once you beat Launch Base, the game saved is marked "clear" and only allows you to choose the first 6.