Talk:Cheat Codes:Sonic 3 & Knuckles

Headings

Considering the title of this page is "Cheat Codes:Sonic 3 & Knuckles", I think it's pointless for each heading to have "Sonic 3 & Knuckles Locked-on" appended to it, so I'm going ahead and removing it. --Shobiz 09:26, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Merge Proposition

Since Sonic 3 & Knuckles uses Sonic & Knuckles' engine, all Game Genie codes and PAR codes will be the same. The only codes which are different are the level select and debug codes, and they aren't enough to justify having two separate pages for IMO, so I'm proposing this should be merged with the Cheat Codes:Sonic & Knuckles, and this page just redirect there. --Shobiz 09:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Test this stuff before you add anything. The game genie codes from my recollection aren't interchangable. Some may work some may not. The RAM altering codes aka Pro action replay codes, are the only things that may work consistantly. I hope you didn't mess up the codes section cause I tested each and every code I added. Some cheat sites like gscentral.org are messy and unreliable.--MathUser 17:48, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, I should note that Game Genies are built to alter ROM values, they can't effect RAM real time like PAR, so if the game code gets switched around by being locked onto then the code loses its usability. But PAR will still use the same RAM addresses in many cases. There are fake Game genie codes out there that effect RAM instead of ROM and they will work perfectly fine on a emulator cause emulators can do anything. But those arent true Game genie codes cause they wont work on a system. Anway, just to re-iterate. Test codes before adding them, especially on sonic 3, sonic & knuckles, sonic 2 & knuckles, sonic 3 & knuckles. Also, stop removing important notes on codes. Like the mention that codes should be switched off to avoid locking up the game.--MathUser 18:00, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I use these codes every single day and have been using them for over 4 years now, so I know they work. Also, I don't quite think you understood what I meant - Sonic 3 & Knuckles is basically Sonic & Knuckles with access to Sonic 3 data. It uses Sonic & Knuckles' engine, so the GG and PAR codes have to be the same, cos it's the same engine. The only codes which could be different are those which either access the ROM above $200000 (not sure if there are any), or those which modify parts of the game which differ between Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic 3 & Knuckles (e.g. the title screen), but I think those will be only a minority and aren't enough to warrant two separate articles.

And I removed the 'important note' on the infinite rings code cos what the note says doesn't happen. I've used the code for 5 years, and it never locks up the game. It can't lock up the game anyway, because the ring count is copied to another RAM variable for use as a bonus countdown anyway. --Shobiz 18:13, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I should note that Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles codes are not interchangeable in the same way--many of the RAM addresses differ between the two, so those cannot be merged. Just for the record. --Tweaker 19:53, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

For that matter, all Sonic 2 & Knuckles GG codes won't work on Sonic & Knuckles alone either, since S2K uses a different part of the ROM. In fact, even some RAM addresses are different, so some PAR codes aren't interchangeable either. --Shobiz 06:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

It's better to just keep them seperate, cause it might cause confusion and people will assume every code they come up in one game will work in another. For Example, you can't become Hyper in Sonic & Knuckles. You need Sonic 3 & Knuckles to be locked together.--MathUser 16:58, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

You can become hyper in Sonic & Knuckles alone, just use the PAR code FFFFB0:0707. Anything you can do in Sonic 3k which doesn't require data (note: not code, data - all code is in Sonic & Knuckles, and all GG codes alter code) from Sonic 3 can be done in Sonic & Knuckles alone, which is why I'm saying these two pages should be merged.

Well, these are the official game genie codes for Sonic & Knuckles, and Sonic 3 & Knuckles...http://www.gshi.org/?s=v2&sys=16&gid=1438 If they all work for Both games then I guess we can merge them. I don't have time to test them myself.--MathUser 17:08, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

From a quick glance over them, all the codes should be interchangeable cos they all access common code areas. I suppose though that it might be a good idea to check some of them anyway, though they all should work. --Shobiz 17:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Don't suppose anything when going for accuracy. All the game enhancer codes I added to the wiki I tested personally. Also, by merging the articles that means everytime a code is added it has to be tested on both cartridges. So if you want to merge it, then you should be the one to test every new code added. If they stay seperate you should only have to test the game its added to.--MathUser 18:54, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

You still don't seem to understand the reason why I even suggested the merge, so I'll explain some more:

Sonic 3 & Knuckles runs on Sonic & Knuckles' engine. Basically, all the code is present in Sonic & Knuckles (actually I believe a small amount of code IS run from the Sonic 3 ROM, but I doubt that code would ever be the subject of a GG code). The only thing actually taken from Sonic 3 is data, but everything else is in the base S&K ROM. As a result, regardless of whether you're running Sonic & Knuckles alone or with Sonic 3 locked on, you're still running exactly the same pieces of code, so most Game Genie codes are guaranteed to work in either ROM. The only ones which won't work are those which deal with a specific part of either game - as an example, the start with X lives codes for Sonic & Knuckles alone won't work in Sonic 3k, because Sonic & Knuckles calls a different title screen routine when Sonic 3's locked on, but all stuff like say Ultra Jump for Sonic, keep shields when hit etc will work in either game.

Regardless, I'll test all the codes anyway since you're still so apprehensive about it. In fact, I've already tested the first few codes for Sonic 3k in just Sonic & Knuckles alone, and they all work with the exception of the infinite speed shoes code, but that code doesn't work in Sonic 3k either due to it being stupid - the correct code, in case you care, is JAGA-CA98 for Sonic, JA6T-CA5E for Tails and HKXA-CA7T for Knuckles. I'll probably do the rest of them later today, and if you're still not satisfied - well I can't help that I guess.--Shobiz 06:04, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Tested all codes

All right, tested all Sonic 3k codes in S&K alone and vice versa. The only ones which don't work in Sonic & Knuckles don't work in Sonic 3k either (Super Shoes don't run out with time, Bonus round is always Slot Machine and Bonus round is always Glowing Spheres are the three which don't work). None of the start with X lives codes for S&K alone work in Sonic 3k, as I predicted, but the infinite lives code for S&K does work in Sonic 3k. Are there any special administrative tools for page merges, or is it just copy-paste? --Shobiz 12:20, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

There's no tools for merging that I know of. You'll just have to copy and paste, I'd still like to hear the final decision of other mods anyway.--MathUser 14:20, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not gonna do anything until the other sysops express their views about this. --Shobiz 15:06, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Is there anyone else who agrees/disagrees with this? --Shobiz 06:52, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Preview of merged cheat codes page

A preview of what a merged cheat codes page would look like can be seen here (ext-linked cos of that fucking annoying subpage ampersand bug). Any comments/suggestions/objections?

Also, it seems that talk pages get silently ignored in some instances, so I'll be taking silence as a sign of approval. If you have any issues, speak up! --Shobiz 08:42, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I suppose the silence means quiet agreeance. I'm not too into merged articles but, for that page I got some suggestions. ! isn't needed, we don't need a complete list if it means having non-working codes. But have you tried the code on hardware? If it don't work on hardware either then just delete the codes. We should get rid of single letter keys only, cause you have to scroll up to see what game the codes are compatible with. Just put (S&K only) (S3 only) (S3k only) in red text. That G key can be (tested in Gens).--MathUser 13:10, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Done, thanks for the suggestions. I don't have any way of testing the code on hardware, but looking at how the codes do what they attempt to, I'm pretty positive they won't work at all, so I've just removed them altogether. I've already put up replacement codes for the Speed Shoes ones, so I guess I'll do the same for the Bonus Stage is always XXX ones as well. Any other ideas for the page? --Shobiz 14:12, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, it looks good, but you need a different name for the article, theres problems conencting to that page. Or perhaps you can just replace the Sonic 3 & knuckles with this.--MathUser 15:04, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, pages with both ampersands and forward slashes in their titles screw up the URL rewriting code, and can only be accessed using the index.php?title=... form. Scarred Sun said she'd try to fix it, but apparently she hasn't had any luck with that yet =( I was planning to replace Cheat Codes:Sonic & Knuckles with the merged page and make this page redirect there. Reason being that Sonic & Knuckles is the main game whereas Sonic 3 & Knuckles is just a lock-on game, so it makes more sense IMO for the S&K cheat codes page to be the actual article and the S3K cheat codes page to be just a redirect. --Shobiz 15:15, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

If you ever find replacements for the official Game Genie codes that were listed don't add them to the official game genie code section. They can go in a User made code section.--MathUser 15:21, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I've already found them for the three non-working codes (speed shoes don't run out with time, bonus stage is always magnetic orbs, bonus stage is always slot machine, plus I added bonus stage is always gumball machine), they're listed in the unofficial codes (which I'm assuming is for user made codes). Is the replacement/redirect plan fine with you? --Shobiz 15:43, 19 August 2008 (UTC)